. >> and ari, it feels like the deficit reduction that we had during the clinton years, and you have high borrowing rates and that is not the circumstances that we are finding ourselves in. is there any reason to have an angst about the deficit right now? >> no! one of the central republican arguments early on is that if we do this the interest rates will go up and that is the problem, but that is not the case with the drama going down in washington. that is why you have to take a step back and what the republicans have done well and obviously a long term proposition as you showed with byrd demonizing debt decades ago is this notion that debt is a bad word. i remember when liberal was a bad word in washington and those days have finally ended as you heard "the new york times" headline of the president's liberal inaugural address and no shame in that. >> damion is spitting liberal. >> and the idea that debt is a bad thing is insane. if you look at the bond market, it is a place where people buy and sell debt. if you look at mark zuckerburg is who is successful, he just got a mortgage